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	<title>Comments on: Speculations, please: the griddle-seared pastry (warka-popiah) across Eurasia</title>
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	<link>http://www.rachellaudan.com/2010/07/the-griddle-seared-pastry-warka-popiah-across-eurasia.html</link>
	<description>A Historian's Take on Food and Food Politics</description>
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		<title>By: Rachel Laudan</title>
		<link>http://www.rachellaudan.com/2010/07/the-griddle-seared-pastry-warka-popiah-across-eurasia.html/comment-page-1#comment-31140</link>
		<dc:creator>Rachel Laudan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Mar 2011 21:20:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rachellaudan.com/?p=2731#comment-31140</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the comments, Mari. I think much of the work that has to be done in food history has to do with sorting out these far flung influences and getting very clear about who was going where when. Very interesting patterns.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the comments, Mari. I think much of the work that has to be done in food history has to do with sorting out these far flung influences and getting very clear about who was going where when. Very interesting patterns.</p>
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		<title>By: mari</title>
		<link>http://www.rachellaudan.com/2010/07/the-griddle-seared-pastry-warka-popiah-across-eurasia.html/comment-page-1#comment-31137</link>
		<dc:creator>mari</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Mar 2011 19:38:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rachellaudan.com/?p=2731#comment-31137</guid>
		<description>Try South India cuisine: from Kerala state- they have Parotta (flaky pastry flat bread), Idiappam (fine rice noodles steamed using wet rice flour dough), and Kuralappam (fried spring rollish things with savory/sweet stuffings). The last one is an import from the original Christians who migrated to Kerala via sea about 1 AD- note also located in Kerala-Goa region are burial places of St. Thomas the Disciple and Vasco Da Gama. These christians have a different cuisine and pride calling themselves roman christians. And the Indians who migrated (B.C?!) to Africa, Caribbean islands brought over their curry, flat bread concepts. To contemplate history: India-Persian Silk routes, ancient sea travel from China to Africa via India, and the accessibility of Rome and Greece through the RedSea (gulf of Aden) and Gulf of Oman! Google these and compare the regional recipes- never ceases to amaze me!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Try South India cuisine: from Kerala state- they have Parotta (flaky pastry flat bread), Idiappam (fine rice noodles steamed using wet rice flour dough), and Kuralappam (fried spring rollish things with savory/sweet stuffings). The last one is an import from the original Christians who migrated to Kerala via sea about 1 AD- note also located in Kerala-Goa region are burial places of St. Thomas the Disciple and Vasco Da Gama. These christians have a different cuisine and pride calling themselves roman christians. And the Indians who migrated (B.C?!) to Africa, Caribbean islands brought over their curry, flat bread concepts. To contemplate history: India-Persian Silk routes, ancient sea travel from China to Africa via India, and the accessibility of Rome and Greece through the RedSea (gulf of Aden) and Gulf of Oman! Google these and compare the regional recipes- never ceases to amaze me!</p>
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		<title>By: Katy</title>
		<link>http://www.rachellaudan.com/2010/07/the-griddle-seared-pastry-warka-popiah-across-eurasia.html/comment-page-1#comment-29408</link>
		<dc:creator>Katy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jul 2010 21:58:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rachellaudan.com/?p=2731#comment-29408</guid>
		<description>Charles, this spring roll pastry - if you are talking about oriental style spring roll in relation to the thin pastry in the discussion (?) - I have explained it on Robyn&#039;s EatingAsia Facebook page - Rachel has probably read it too. If you are talking about spring rolls in the West, I don&#039;t know. 

However, bear in mind that &#039;spring&#039; rolls refers to a type of food (a thin pastry) that was used for offering to Spring God in the &#039;ancient&#039; days in China - I see no sense that there is something called &#039;spring roll&#039; in the West.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Charles, this spring roll pastry &#8211; if you are talking about oriental style spring roll in relation to the thin pastry in the discussion (?) &#8211; I have explained it on Robyn&#8217;s EatingAsia Facebook page &#8211; Rachel has probably read it too. If you are talking about spring rolls in the West, I don&#8217;t know. </p>
<p>However, bear in mind that &#8216;spring&#8217; rolls refers to a type of food (a thin pastry) that was used for offering to Spring God in the &#8216;ancient&#8217; days in China &#8211; I see no sense that there is something called &#8216;spring roll&#8217; in the West.</p>
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		<title>By: Charles Perry</title>
		<link>http://www.rachellaudan.com/2010/07/the-griddle-seared-pastry-warka-popiah-across-eurasia.html/comment-page-1#comment-29403</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles Perry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jul 2010 17:32:29 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Here&#039;s what Gene Anderson had to say in response to my query about how old spring roll pastry is: 
I don&#039;t really know.  They were traditionally fried and the flakiness came from that (the very high heat), which is not usually the western way to do things. I don&#039;t know of any spring roll recipes with flaky pastry in the few old-time cookbooks that have been translated.
--Gene A</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s what Gene Anderson had to say in response to my query about how old spring roll pastry is:<br />
I don&#8217;t really know.  They were traditionally fried and the flakiness came from that (the very high heat), which is not usually the western way to do things. I don&#8217;t know of any spring roll recipes with flaky pastry in the few old-time cookbooks that have been translated.<br />
&#8211;Gene A</p>
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		<title>By: Rachel Laudan</title>
		<link>http://www.rachellaudan.com/2010/07/the-griddle-seared-pastry-warka-popiah-across-eurasia.html/comment-page-1#comment-29392</link>
		<dc:creator>Rachel Laudan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jul 2010 12:19:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rachellaudan.com/?p=2731#comment-29392</guid>
		<description>No just that one.  Steaming too.  Interesting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No just that one.  Steaming too.  Interesting.</p>
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		<title>By: Paula wolfert</title>
		<link>http://www.rachellaudan.com/2010/07/the-griddle-seared-pastry-warka-popiah-across-eurasia.html/comment-page-1#comment-29390</link>
		<dc:creator>Paula wolfert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jul 2010 03:20:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I don&#039;t think the dome was made of metal. It has a sandstone appearance./

Did Adam send you the second photo showing an earthenware gdra del trid?  

Those sheets of trid are further cooked by steaming.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think the dome was made of metal. It has a sandstone appearance./</p>
<p>Did Adam send you the second photo showing an earthenware gdra del trid?  </p>
<p>Those sheets of trid are further cooked by steaming.</p>
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		<title>By: Rachel Laudan</title>
		<link>http://www.rachellaudan.com/2010/07/the-griddle-seared-pastry-warka-popiah-across-eurasia.html/comment-page-1#comment-29389</link>
		<dc:creator>Rachel Laudan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jul 2010 01:37:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Katy, So glad you contributed and hope to hear from you again, Rachel</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Katy, So glad you contributed and hope to hear from you again, Rachel</p>
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		<title>By: Katy</title>
		<link>http://www.rachellaudan.com/2010/07/the-griddle-seared-pastry-warka-popiah-across-eurasia.html/comment-page-1#comment-29386</link>
		<dc:creator>Katy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jul 2010 23:23:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rachellaudan.com/?p=2731#comment-29386</guid>
		<description>I am no expert either in food nor history, and alongside some of the biggest culinary experts -- here are my thoughts, on some part of the discussion:

I don’t get how thin pastry is an ‘invention’ and how cooking pastry on griddles an ‘invented’ technique, especially when comparing it all to the inventions of light bulbs? Food has origins, several origins even at separate stages in human history since more than 30,000 years ago with the evolvement of agriculture. It’s almost like discussing who invented and transferred fried rice whereas frying is a common technique of cooking rice, just as griddling is a common technique of making (thin) pastry. The history of cooking wheat product in China can be traced as far back as 220 AD with the ‘invention’ of a type of flatbread called Guokui – literally means Pot Helmet. Legend has it that during the Chinese warring period, helmets were used to bake bread – a primitive griddling technique you may say. Also a tandoor-type oven originated in Persia to cook flatbread brought in by a general warrior who conquered Xinjiang and westwards into Central Asia a little earlier than 220 AD.

Popiah is literally ‘thin cake/pastry/bing’ in Hokkien dialect (spoken by Fujianese in Fujian province, south of China). Its origins go back nearly 1300 years ago and it was also called ‘Spring cake’ as it was a traditional food of offering to Spring God. Hence the origin of ‘spring rolls’. These thin pastries traditionally come in two versions – fried and non-fried. Traditionally it is served non-fried as it can be eaten at room temperature and is easier to prepare. As Robyn said, that’s how they made their way to Malaysia. Popiah is not an equivalent of ‘spring rolls’ or ‘egg rolls’– rolls is just how it is eaten, the common technique of wrapping in stuffing, rolling it and eating. That should explain Nancy’s question how  Vietnamese cha gio (called Vietnamese spring rolls) is made with rice flour and unrelated to thin pastry made with wheat.

As for the origins of noodle/dumpling – my understanding is archaeologist has established that pasta originated in China at least more than 1000 years before Italy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am no expert either in food nor history, and alongside some of the biggest culinary experts &#8212; here are my thoughts, on some part of the discussion:</p>
<p>I don’t get how thin pastry is an ‘invention’ and how cooking pastry on griddles an ‘invented’ technique, especially when comparing it all to the inventions of light bulbs? Food has origins, several origins even at separate stages in human history since more than 30,000 years ago with the evolvement of agriculture. It’s almost like discussing who invented and transferred fried rice whereas frying is a common technique of cooking rice, just as griddling is a common technique of making (thin) pastry. The history of cooking wheat product in China can be traced as far back as 220 AD with the ‘invention’ of a type of flatbread called Guokui – literally means Pot Helmet. Legend has it that during the Chinese warring period, helmets were used to bake bread – a primitive griddling technique you may say. Also a tandoor-type oven originated in Persia to cook flatbread brought in by a general warrior who conquered Xinjiang and westwards into Central Asia a little earlier than 220 AD.</p>
<p>Popiah is literally ‘thin cake/pastry/bing’ in Hokkien dialect (spoken by Fujianese in Fujian province, south of China). Its origins go back nearly 1300 years ago and it was also called ‘Spring cake’ as it was a traditional food of offering to Spring God. Hence the origin of ‘spring rolls’. These thin pastries traditionally come in two versions – fried and non-fried. Traditionally it is served non-fried as it can be eaten at room temperature and is easier to prepare. As Robyn said, that’s how they made their way to Malaysia. Popiah is not an equivalent of ‘spring rolls’ or ‘egg rolls’– rolls is just how it is eaten, the common technique of wrapping in stuffing, rolling it and eating. That should explain Nancy’s question how  Vietnamese cha gio (called Vietnamese spring rolls) is made with rice flour and unrelated to thin pastry made with wheat.</p>
<p>As for the origins of noodle/dumpling – my understanding is archaeologist has established that pasta originated in China at least more than 1000 years before Italy.</p>
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		<title>By: Ji-Young Park</title>
		<link>http://www.rachellaudan.com/2010/07/the-griddle-seared-pastry-warka-popiah-across-eurasia.html/comment-page-1#comment-29383</link>
		<dc:creator>Ji-Young Park</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jul 2010 19:06:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rachellaudan.com/?p=2731#comment-29383</guid>
		<description>As a side note: I think &quot;Maghreb&quot;, as in the larger region of North Africa or Arab West, is all too often translated as &quot;Morocco&quot; the country. This matters--- not from a nationalistic point of view--- in food history, especially when you are tracing culinary geography, trade routes, avenues of exchange, etc..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a side note: I think &#8220;Maghreb&#8221;, as in the larger region of North Africa or Arab West, is all too often translated as &#8220;Morocco&#8221; the country. This matters&#8212; not from a nationalistic point of view&#8212; in food history, especially when you are tracing culinary geography, trade routes, avenues of exchange, etc..</p>
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		<title>By: Ji-Young Park</title>
		<link>http://www.rachellaudan.com/2010/07/the-griddle-seared-pastry-warka-popiah-across-eurasia.html/comment-page-1#comment-29382</link>
		<dc:creator>Ji-Young Park</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jul 2010 16:54:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rachellaudan.com/?p=2731#comment-29382</guid>
		<description>Oh, trid is sometimes called &quot;poorman&#039;s bastila&quot;. Bastila is the famous pigeon pie of North Africa made from warka pastry leaves. 

Link to Clifford Wright&#039;s article about the origins of bastila.

http://www.cliffordawright.com/caw/food/entries/display.php/id/66/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, trid is sometimes called &#8220;poorman&#8217;s bastila&#8221;. Bastila is the famous pigeon pie of North Africa made from warka pastry leaves. </p>
<p>Link to Clifford Wright&#8217;s article about the origins of bastila.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.cliffordawright.com/caw/food/entries/display.php/id/66/" rel="nofollow">http://www.cliffordawright.com/caw/food/entries/display.php/id/66/</a></p>
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