Comments on: Mexican Salsas and North African Harisa http://www.rachellaudan.com/2007/12/mexican-salsas-and-north-african-harisa.html A Historian's Take on Food and Food Politics Wed, 08 Feb 2012 11:28:25 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Rachel Laudan http://www.rachellaudan.com/2007/12/mexican-salsas-and-north-african-harisa.html/comment-page-1#comment-31296 Rachel Laudan Sat, 14 May 2011 13:03:48 +0000 http://www.rachellaudan.com/2007/12/mexican-salsas-and-north-african-harisa.html#comment-31296 It posted! Perhaps because I am in Spain, not Mexico. It posted! Perhaps because I am in Spain, not Mexico.

]]> By: dianabuja http://www.rachellaudan.com/2007/12/mexican-salsas-and-north-african-harisa.html/comment-page-1#comment-31294 dianabuja Sat, 14 May 2011 05:47:52 +0000 http://www.rachellaudan.com/2007/12/mexican-salsas-and-north-african-harisa.html#comment-31294 A similar hot sauce is made here in central Africa, using red peppers... Always on the table and a 'substitute for salt. Wonder if this will post!! A similar hot sauce is made here in central Africa, using red peppers… Always on the table and a ‘substitute for salt.

Wonder if this will post!!

]]> By: Ji Young http://www.rachellaudan.com/2007/12/mexican-salsas-and-north-african-harisa.html/comment-page-1#comment-996 Ji Young Wed, 25 Jun 2008 03:37:01 +0000 http://www.rachellaudan.com/2007/12/mexican-salsas-and-north-african-harisa.html#comment-996 It could be sweet red pepper or red pepper flakes or ground red pepper, no necessarily harissa??? I would be very interested in a bibliography of references to Moorish cooking in English cookery books. It could be sweet red pepper or red pepper flakes or ground red pepper, no necessarily harissa???

I would be very interested in a bibliography of references to Moorish cooking in English cookery books.

]]> By: Adam Balic http://www.rachellaudan.com/2007/12/mexican-salsas-and-north-african-harisa.html/comment-page-1#comment-994 Adam Balic Wed, 25 Jun 2008 00:28:55 +0000 http://www.rachellaudan.com/2007/12/mexican-salsas-and-north-african-harisa.html#comment-994 I found this 17th century English description of Moorish Food (not sure what part of North Africa sadly). Interesting use of chilli in a salad dressing. "Their Salating is Lettuce, Endive, Cardus, Parsley, Apium, and other sweet Herbs, Onions, Cucumbers of several kinds, some about a Yard in length, and two or three inches thick, and hairy, this is esteemed the wholsomest), Radishes, Fumatas, or Apples of Love, all which they will cut, and put oil, vinegar, and salt, with some red Pepper: This Salate they eat with Bread." Harissa as a salad dressing? I found this 17th century English description of Moorish Food (not sure what part of North Africa sadly). Interesting use of chilli in a salad dressing.

“Their Salating is Lettuce, Endive, Cardus, Parsley, Apium, and other sweet Herbs, Onions, Cucumbers of several kinds, some about a Yard in length, and two or three inches thick, and hairy, this is esteemed the wholsomest), Radishes, Fumatas, or Apples of Love, all which they will cut, and put oil, vinegar, and salt, with some red Pepper: This Salate they eat with Bread.”

Harissa as a salad dressing?

]]> By: Ji Young http://www.rachellaudan.com/2007/12/mexican-salsas-and-north-african-harisa.html/comment-page-1#comment-993 Ji Young Tue, 24 Jun 2008 23:02:06 +0000 http://www.rachellaudan.com/2007/12/mexican-salsas-and-north-african-harisa.html#comment-993 "So back to globalization. Is harisa an independent invention in North Africa, thought up once they had chiles? Or did returning migrants to New Spain suggest that chiles could be used for color, thickening, as well as piquancy and flavor? I really don’t thing we have a clue." I do not believe it is an independent invention in the sense "wow, we have these ingredients, now let's make something up". I think it's a transference, using new ingredients to substitute for old ones into an already existing category of table and cooking relishes. I started to write something about this, I'll try to dig it up. Prior to chile peppers and tomatoes a tendency to prefer reddish colored table relishes existed. As far as Paula Wolfer assigning harissa to Morocco, in her book she calls it Tunisian and via private correspondence she says it entered Morocco via tourism. And Moroccan cooking in general is not piquant, they never embraced the chile pepper the way it was in Tunisia and regionally in Algeria. I think if Kitty Morse were asked about the existence of "Moroccan" harissa she would probably agree that it entered via tourist demand or Moroccans returning from France where they're is a sort of "Pan-Magrhebine" culture. “So back to globalization. Is harisa an independent invention in North Africa, thought up once they had chiles? Or did returning migrants to New Spain suggest that chiles could be used for color, thickening, as well as piquancy and flavor? I really don’t thing we have a clue.”

I do not believe it is an independent invention in the sense “wow, we have these ingredients, now let’s make something up”.

I think it’s a transference, using new ingredients to substitute for old ones into an already existing category of table and cooking relishes. I started to write something about this, I’ll try to dig it up. Prior to chile peppers and tomatoes a tendency to prefer reddish colored table relishes existed.

As far as Paula Wolfer assigning harissa to Morocco, in her book she calls it Tunisian and via private correspondence she says it entered Morocco via tourism. And Moroccan cooking in general is not piquant, they never embraced the chile pepper the way it was in Tunisia and regionally in Algeria.

I think if Kitty Morse were asked about the existence of “Moroccan” harissa she would probably agree that it entered via tourist demand or Moroccans returning from France where they’re is a sort of “Pan-Magrhebine” culture.

]]> By: Kay Curtis http://www.rachellaudan.com/2007/12/mexican-salsas-and-north-african-harisa.html/comment-page-1#comment-263 Kay Curtis Tue, 15 Jan 2008 02:18:37 +0000 http://www.rachellaudan.com/2007/12/mexican-salsas-and-north-african-harisa.html#comment-263 I think there might be some illumination in looking at this discussion through the lens of evolutionary niche theory. I think there might be some illumination in looking at this discussion through the lens of evolutionary niche theory.

]]> By: Adam Balic http://www.rachellaudan.com/2007/12/mexican-salsas-and-north-african-harisa.html/comment-page-1#comment-179 Adam Balic Fri, 28 Dec 2007 22:16:59 +0000 http://www.rachellaudan.com/2007/12/mexican-salsas-and-north-african-harisa.html#comment-179 No comments on the food by early Spanish arrivals? I guess that even if this was so then vinegar would likely pass by un-mentioned. Proportion is important. The Perry recipes uses 5 heads (!!! cloves?) of garlic, 3 dirhams of oil (about 9 gms I think), 1.5 dirhams of caraway, 0.5 dirham pepper, 1 dirham cinnamon (three sprigs rue, mint, bunch of parsley). Green lemon juice/vinegar to cover. So very little oil and more a paste of spiced and herbed garlic or maybe something like a salsa verde? No comments on the food by early Spanish arrivals? I guess that even if this was so then vinegar would likely pass by un-mentioned.

Proportion is important. The Perry recipes uses 5 heads (!!! cloves?) of garlic, 3 dirhams of oil (about 9 gms I think), 1.5 dirhams of caraway, 0.5 dirham pepper, 1 dirham cinnamon (three sprigs rue, mint, bunch of parsley). Green lemon juice/vinegar to cover.

So very little oil and more a paste of spiced and herbed garlic or maybe something like a salsa verde?

]]> By: Rachel Laudan http://www.rachellaudan.com/2007/12/mexican-salsas-and-north-african-harisa.html/comment-page-1#comment-177 Rachel Laudan Fri, 28 Dec 2007 13:35:15 +0000 http://www.rachellaudan.com/2007/12/mexican-salsas-and-north-african-harisa.html#comment-177 IN the colonial period and today too Mexico has a lot of fruit vinegars. Whether these date back to prehispanic days, it's impossible to tell. Pineapple, for example, would have been available but we have no evidence one way or another about whether it was actually used. As to the Perry recipe, it would rather depend on the proportions, wouldn't it? In an adobo the chile is the main thickening agent. IN the colonial period and today too Mexico has a lot of fruit vinegars. Whether these date back to prehispanic days, it’s impossible to tell. Pineapple, for example, would have been available but we have no evidence one way or another about whether it was actually used.

As to the Perry recipe, it would rather depend on the proportions, wouldn’t it? In an adobo the chile is the main thickening agent.

]]> By: Rachel Laudan http://www.rachellaudan.com/2007/12/mexican-salsas-and-north-african-harisa.html/comment-page-1#comment-134 Rachel Laudan Fri, 21 Dec 2007 02:30:29 +0000 http://www.rachellaudan.com/2007/12/mexican-salsas-and-north-african-harisa.html#comment-134 Hi Adam, That makes it lots clearer. No I'm not sure what the connection might be if there even is one. What seems to me clearer and clearer is that harisa and adobo have the same structure. I need to think about this for a couple of days and then I will post again. I am so grateful for your comments. This is just the kind of intellectual exchange I would love to engender in this blog, Rachel Hi Adam, That makes it lots clearer. No I’m not sure what the connection might be if there even is one. What seems to me clearer and clearer is that harisa and adobo have the same structure. I need to think about this for a couple of days and then I will post again. I am so grateful for your comments. This is just the kind of intellectual exchange I would love to engender in this blog,

Rachel

]]> By: Adam Balic http://www.rachellaudan.com/2007/12/mexican-salsas-and-north-african-harisa.html/comment-page-1#comment-129 Adam Balic Thu, 20 Dec 2007 06:26:14 +0000 http://www.rachellaudan.com/2007/12/mexican-salsas-and-north-african-harisa.html#comment-129 An example of a medieval Arabic (14th C) given in Charles Perry's translation of "The Description of Familiar Foods" lists the ingredients as: Garlic, olive oil, pepper, salt, parsley,caraway seeds, mint, rue, cinnamon mixed with the juice of green lemons (potential these are limes) or vinegar. Add Chiles to this and I wonder if you would end up with an adobos, a harissa or something else again. In an essay on the topic Perry mentions that the essential feature of these sauces was thick, smooth texture. Harissa could be decended from these sauces or an independent invention, not enough data to tell. An example of a medieval Arabic (14th C) given in Charles Perry’s translation of “The Description of Familiar Foods” lists the ingredients as:

Garlic, olive oil, pepper, salt, parsley,caraway seeds, mint, rue, cinnamon mixed with the juice of green lemons (potential these are limes) or vinegar.

Add Chiles to this and I wonder if you would end up with an adobos, a harissa or something else again.

In an essay on the topic Perry mentions that the essential feature of these sauces was thick, smooth texture.

Harissa could be decended from these sauces or an independent invention, not enough data to tell.

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